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Poster: BryanE Date: Apr 2, 2007 9:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that got better later on

I Know You Rider

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Poster: deadn73 Date: Apr 2, 2007 9:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that got better later on

its one thing to say there are great versions of these songs from the 80's, especially if u feel u need to defend that time period, BUT BETTER?! gimmie a freakin break, i love the 80's and im not nearly as defensive about the early years as cliff but to say that morning dew got better because jerrys decline in health somehow fit the song?( in some cases i agree somewhat, like stella blue a song that lyrically has more impact as someone gets older and closer to death) but i dont see morning dew fitting that mold lyrically... it was a protest song after all never could understand how it got mixed up in the same bag with stella blue, some many roads etc. i guess cuss its slower ... i can understand why cliff gets defensive...

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Apr 2, 2007 10:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that got better later on

Songs that improved:

RAMBLE ON ROSE

HALF STEP (but reached peak in '77, declined after)

CASSIDY

STELLA BLUE (compare Brent on the "shine" chorus to donna, or to when no one chimed in)

BERTHA (as noted previously b/c the jam extended in later years, but like Half Step, reached peak in '77 and declined after. For those shaking their heads "no" show me two better Bertha's than 4-23-77 and 10-29-77.)

MUSIC NEVER STOPPED

DEAL (extended jams in later versions)

SONGS THAT GOT WORSE:

ROW JIMMY--from groovy, reggae-ish fun up til '78, to ponderous, croaky sludge-fest by the 80's and beyond.

BIRDSONG (hold your fire. There ARE great latter day versions, but it's hard to argue Jerry's voice was ever more beautiful than in the early '72-'73 years. Those years also featured some incredibly jazzy, more focused jams than in later years. See 6-22-73 or Stanley Theater 9-26 and27-72 or Ventura 8-27-72)

JACK A ROE (I like the Mark Knopfler-ish, mellow, Phil-heavy slower versions debuted in 1977 than the later rush-ahead, country-fied hop-a-long versions of later years).



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Poster: deadn73 Date: Apr 2, 2007 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that got better later on

ramble on rose? ur joking right? explain to me why that got better then, say the version from steppin out(Europe 72)

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Apr 2, 2007 11:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that got better later on

The Europe '72 version of Ramble is fine.

Now go listen to 5-19-77 (it's a DP, forget which),listen to the bridge Jerry plays into the "Just like Crazy Otto" verse...tell me that's not better than '72 then try

11-30-80

http://www.archive.org/details/gd80-11-30.sbd-aud.sacks.2416.sbeok.shnf

and tell me Jerry's not belting that out better than '72. (I guess Id have to admit that in subsequent years after 1980 I can't cite too many examples better than early 70's, but in the 8 years since they first started playing it, it most certainly got better, IMO.)

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Poster: deadn73 Date: Apr 2, 2007 2:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that got better later on

those are two great versions ( i have both those shows) but if ur saying ramble on rose got better because in those versions he belts out the lyrics, then ur assuming he never did in 72 (it was played over 20 times im willing to bet that he sang at least one of them as passionately as those ones, with a better sounding voice), and based on ur scale there is a version from 74 that was the easily on par with those two vocal wise, and like i said i have both those shows u posted

the songs that have an actual arguement for better are the ones where they acutally expand the sound musically, thats not the case here.. though they did decrease the energy throughout the years...

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Apr 3, 2007 2:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that got better later on

Hey, I'm more than willing to listen, but "Show me the Jerry!" (Sorry). I need proof. And I always love finding new versions of songs I love (and Ramble is one of my favorites). I only discovered 11-30-80 recently and was blown away by it.

My point is that the early versions--while featuring Jerry in fine vocal form, I agree his voice never sounded better/stronger than in '72-'73--tend to be on the mellower side and Europe '72's Ramble is no exception. In later years they seemed to grow in confidence with playing around with the bridge jam of the song and Jerry delighted (at times) in really booming out the key "Goodbye Mama and Papa" section, which really is the emotional payoff of the tune.

I'm willing to hear those examples of early '72 versions where the band demonstrates this but until I hear clear instances of such, i still maintain that the song grew in power and richness of overall playing in those 8 years between '72 and '80. Hence, it got better.

(As I say, in later years, especially the 1980's, the song became sloppy and was more often than not a 1st set throwaway in which Jerry butchered the lyrics and croaked his way thru the end lyric...very disappointing, but this is a fate suffered by a lot of songs in the 1980's, including Row Jimmy and others.)

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Apr 2, 2007 11:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that got better later on

Disagree with you on Row Jimmy. I'm not saying it got better but I wouldn't consider it as any candidate to show a song getting worse.

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Poster: smi2les Date: Apr 2, 2007 11:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that got better later on

Well if you were on the road and one night jerry forgot words to a tune...a couple of tune later bobby forgot the words to a tune.....hopefully the next night was better.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Apr 2, 2007 11:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Songs that got better later on

There are very few songs that I think got better but I think there are a few. Deal for example. It was a way slow kind of thing and look at what a showstopper it became. Check out the 4-1-88 version where Garcia just shreds it and tell me it's not better. Same thing with Loser I think. The solos and energy whipped up are way more intense later on. Music Never stopped, Sugaree. Both of those tunes are way more jammed out and intense later on.